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alternator overcharging

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:38 am
by grahamfirestorm
Hi everyone,i need some advice.A couple of weeks ago i decided to fit a charging light on the dash of my rf900,and it immediately showed it was over charging.So on with a voltmeter and without lights on its reading 14.7,lights on full 15.1,side lights 14.8.Ive had the bike for 18mnths and never blown a bulb or fried the battery.The alternator was removed and taken to an alternator firm to be checked and they said its the regulator but couldnt find one to fit,so i bought a new one from M&P and they fitted it.The bearings were fine.Put the bike back together and its exactly the same,overcharging,but the battery was checked and showed up to be weak.After fitting a brand new battery from Suzuki (this is getting expensive),the voltage reading wasnt quite as high but still not 14.2 which it should be,so i would like to know who can rewind my alternator,Electrex world dont list it,and are all the alternators the same for the rf,or are there 2 types according to which coupling is on the bike.My rf is a 1999 rw,presumeably with the later coupling,and its only done 20500mls.Any advice would be greatly appreciated cheers Graham. :think:

Re: alternator overcharging

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 10:50 am
by Old wobbler
HI.

I'd suggest you repost this or get the ADMINS to move this to technical section where people are more likely to see it and give you a heads up.



OW

Re: alternator overcharging

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:16 am
by mike-rf600r
Hi Graham sorry to hear of your troubles. Can’t really help usually it’s under charging due to the rubber coupling on your models going bad.

Those readings don’t sound abnormally high? Is it causing you issues other than you now “knowing” it’s overcharging from your recent gadget install?

What I’m alluding to is are you chasing after a issue that isn’t actually a issue?

Either way someone more technical will be along shortly to help. Keep us updated as is a interesting question

Re: alternator overcharging

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 11:16 am
by b00geyman
Good call OW.

Re: alternator overcharging

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 6:07 pm
by jaz66
right graham.

i am not the most technical on here by a long mf way... :laughing-rolling:



but our old resident Doc Emmett from BTTF.
Image

may have left us but did leave in the TECHNICAL board of the forum
The SHED.
a cornucopia of electric knowledge and wealth.

(sadly photofuku bollixed up the post pics....BUT
you can still read up on many topics.)

Fasty's post say... :ugeek:
Charge the battery or if possible jump start the bike off a car. With the engine running put a meter across the battery terminals, set to 20V DC. You should see around 12.5V with the engine running, rising to around 14.5 V at 5000 RPM.
post is HERE
http://www.rfownersclub.co.uk/viewtopic ... 55&t=19190

The alternators MUST be matching set.
Green with the SOLID coupling..
We've come to refer to the different types of alternator and drive by the parts label on the alternator itself. The 'early' type with the solid drive has a Green label while the later rubber coupling drive type has a Black label.

Note that you can't fit a Green label alternator into a rubber coupling or a Black label alternator into a solid coupling - while the physical dimensions of the unit are the same the shafts are different


i did start to consider saving the pics just for the SHED, so let me have a hunt through my Gdrive and if i can find any i'll try and insert into shed as per fastys pics.. :handgestures-thumbupleft:

hope some of that helps.. :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Re: alternator overcharging

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:25 pm
by grahamfirestorm
Thanks Mike and Jazz for your replies.You may be right Mike in that im probably worrying too much about this since i fitted the charging light,i only fitted it so that if the coupling ever went the light would turn from green to red and stay red.Today i went to see a mate of mine who has half a dozen "old" Japanese multis,and he told me he has a gsxSuzuki which always showed overcharging i.e.15+volts,and the bike has done 90000mls without frying the battery.Hes quite a knowledgable bloke and said that a reading of 14.7 to 15.1volts aint gonna harm anything,so im going to forget about it.Thanks again fellas anyway. :-bd:

Re: alternator overcharging

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 7:41 pm
by jaz66
Good news graham...

Then our work here is done.. :-bd:
( at least until the next members needs help or advice )

Me and mike are going to pop in for a quick one in the club bar, welcome to join us, if ya got time.. :D


Re: alternator overcharging

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:23 pm
by mike-rf600r
Good result but sorry you got done out of money. You can convert rubber coupling type to early solid state type of its that much of a concern.

Nice one jaz I’ve already had a jar tonight after a rubbish work day I’ll see you there :lol:

Re: alternator overcharging

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 8:32 pm
by novocaine
Good to see theyve done up the cock and butt. At least it isnt a gastro pub anymore.

Re: alternator overcharging

Posted: Wed Oct 10, 2018 9:31 pm
by jaz66
mike-rf600r wrote:Good result but sorry you got done out of money. You can convert rubber coupling type to early solid state type of its that much of a concern.
have to be honest, for me the rads my real concern about keeping the bike long term..
(that and the ulez, which the rf fails on... :evil:,,so come 2021/22 depending on what rules they apply,
the bike might have to go.. :angry-cussingblack: ). )

But IF i had the later bikes, (and alternator coupling does seem to be the rf's real achilles heel
i'd be looking online for the old style (green) set up and be ready to swap over the lot,
rather then just replace the Black type, if i was me keeping it longer term... 8-)

Re: alternator overcharging

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 6:01 am
by mike-rf600r
Still some good radiators secondhand no need to worry always a expensive recore if needed. Alternator shouldn’t be a concern for you with a early bike like me and BA. :-bd:

Re: alternator overcharging

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:08 am
by Recidivist
I've almost finished my "conversion to solid drive after rubber coupling failure", and once I'm sure it's successful I'll add some notes to the thread I started when it failed. In case it helps, I'd like to say there's scope for some confusion in referring to the different alternator types simply as "Black label" or "Green label" - if you are buying one, and there are usually a few on eBay, with very variable condition and prices, it's important to confirm the part number on the label (not always obvious in photos).

https://www.robinsonsfoundry.co.uk/shop ... alternator

It seems the earliest (solid drive) models had the 31400-17E02 which has the longer shaft (fits solid drive on starter clutch shaft) and that version has a Black label... then the part number changed to 31400-17E20 with a Green label (note that only the order of the last two digits is different). The Robinson's site confusingly says that the E20 is the older model, but the important thing is that the late RFs with rubber coupling have the 31400-17E30 alternator with a shorter shaft which again has a Black label! As far as I can tell, only the rotor/shaft unit varies - the longer splined end on E02 and E20 fit the solid coupling. As it's a relatively easy unit to rebuild, there may well be hybrid units out there too - I could in theory have rebuilt my black label E30 with a longer rotor shaft (there was a brand new one on eBay for around £50), but I chose to buy a cheap old E02 (also black label) with the longer shaft, and to refurbish it (one new bearing, general clean-up). I'm soon to see if it works, and I hope to get more voltage than I did with the broken rubber coupling - aiming for more than 13.5 V (what the manual says you should see, as minimum, with engine running) and not too much more than 14.5V.

I had been thinking of a cheap charging light to monitor this when on the go, but I worry about inaccuracy, so perhaps I'll splash out around £30 on one of these. Has anyone done this?

https://www.louis-moto.co.uk/artikel/ko ... t/10034905

(may be available elsewhere, but this is best price I can see and my son is in Germany right now and might be able to pick one up for me)

There are cheaper voltmeters on eBay, some even with USB ports included, etc., but I am suspicious of quality and weather resistance; Koso looks like a respectable brand for electronic instruments.

Re: alternator overcharging

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:45 pm
by Recidivist
Quick update - the engine starts and seems to run fine so far after my alternator replacement, and at fast tickover the voltage rises to 14.6, then stops going up so I think my regulator is working fine. The bench test for the regulator shown in the manual says 14.5V, so this is good enough for me.

Re: alternator overcharging

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 2:47 pm
by mike-rf600r
Happy days :-bd: well done that man

Re: alternator overcharging

Posted: Thu Oct 11, 2018 5:03 pm
by Ollie
grahamfirestorm wrote:Hi everyone,i need some advice.A couple of weeks ago i decided to fit a charging light on the dash of my rf900,and it immediately showed it was over charging.So on with a voltmeter and without lights on its reading 14.7,lights on full 15.1,side lights 14.8.Ive had the bike for 18mnths and never blown a bulb or fried the battery.The alternator was removed and taken to an alternator firm to be checked and they said its the regulator but couldnt find one to fit,so i bought a new one from M&P and they fitted it.The bearings were fine.Put the bike back together and its exactly the same,overcharging,but the battery was checked and showed up to be weak.After fitting a brand new battery from Suzuki (this is getting expensive),the voltage reading wasnt quite as high but still not 14.2 which it should be,so i would like to know who can rewind my alternator,Electrex world dont list it,and are all the alternators the same for the rf,or are there 2 types according to which coupling is on the bike.My rf is a 1999 rw,presumeably with the later coupling,and its only done 20500mls.Any advice would be greatly appreciated cheers Graham. :think:
The Alternator pumping out 15.1 volts is a bit on the high side but both mine sit/sat at 14.7 volts without lights.
As your new battery has lowered the volts to the norm I wouldn't worry about it.
Having the charging light on your bike will tell you when your coupling has failed so it will give you an opportunity to turn around and head for home.

The alternators are usually house brick reliable it is the rubber couplings that fail (it's their job. They protect alternator/engine from seize ups.)

A properly fitted replacement coupling will last another 25k to 30k miles so I shouldn't worry about changing alternators unless a sprag clutch and alternator off an earlier model comes up cheap.

If you are handy with a spanner then the coupling change isn't too difficult.

Re: alternator overcharging

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 7:44 pm
by grahamfirestorm
Thanks guys for the helpful info.Can anyone tell me which petrol pipe from the tank goes to the 2 top pipes of the tap,as i might have them crossed.Im having to turn tap on to reserve with plenty of fuel in,and before the light comes on,something that never happened before removing the tank to extract the alternator and replacing the petrol pipes with new ones.Im sure ive got the pipe from the pump to the bottom pipe of the tap,cheers.

Re: alternator overcharging

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:06 pm
by Ollie
Yep, sounds like you have crossed fuel pipes.
This is how the pipes attach:

Image

Image

There is a proper description in the manual.
If you want a good copy then see my signature below.

Re: alternator overcharging

Posted: Fri Oct 12, 2018 8:30 pm
by grahamfirestorm
Cheers Ollie your a star :handgestures-thumbupleft:

Re: alternator overcharging

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 9:27 pm
by grahamfirestorm
Hi all,checked the new fuel pipes and i had put them on correctly,but the "on" pipe i had put on was a bit too long and had a crease in it restricting flow,all is well now.Incidentally,do rf900s have a vibration phase at around 5-6000 revs. :dont know:

Re: alternator overcharging

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:09 pm
by slim
grahamfirestorm wrote:do rf900s have a vibration phase at around 5-6000 revs. :dont know:
Virtually every 4 cyl 4 stroke Suzuki has vibes at 5k usually its felt through the right footrest & if you have ally footrests its worse, there is usually some through the bars too, some race cans seem to make it worse & some don't

Re: alternator overcharging

Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2018 10:32 pm
by grahamfirestorm
Ah cheers slim,just what a few of my mates have said,it does go if you rev through it but then its going so damn fast since ive geared it higher lol :D

Re: alternator overcharging

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:07 am
by jaz66
not sure but if you don't have one fitted, an ignition advancer does give some benefits..

copied from laziness from an older incarnation of the forum

http://rf-owners.forums-free.com/igniti ... -t248.html

I think mike /suzuiki goof set a little run of the advancers...sub £50 if i recall.
yep, here is link..
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Suzuki-RF900 ... 3fa676b763

Does what the lads in the link say it does.. :-bd:

Re: alternator overcharging

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 2:38 am
by mike-rf600r
Heavier bar ends will help reduce vibes to hands , worth checking the rubbers on the top yoke too. rubber washers behind rearsets will help with the feet vibes. As Slim says stock pegs are best too.

Also +1 on jaz’s comment. The ignition advancer is a worthy addition. I’d recommend to anyone.

Re: alternator overcharging

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 10:39 am
by grahamfirestorm
Cheers lads i may try the ignition advancer,but i had a TRE on my busa and i didnt like the fuelling at low revs so i took it off :P

Re: alternator overcharging

Posted: Tue Oct 16, 2018 12:33 pm
by mike-rf600r
grahamfirestorm wrote:Cheers lads i may try the ignition advancer,but i had a TRE on my busa and i didnt like the fuelling at low revs so i took it off :P
RF ignition advancer just makes bike more but more eager and bit more torquey. All helps :-bd:

If you ever have the spare cash it’s worth a try. Or try ride someone else’s with one fitted before you buy.